DISQUS

Tawcan · 11 months ago

What an excellent post. I'm an outdoor person like you but I not only climb but scramble, ski, and kayak. My co-workers are always amazed that I go on these "crazy" trips pretty much every weekend. On Friday my boss usually asks me "which mountain are you climbing this weekend?" It's rather amusing.

Love your definition of partner. It's so true hehe.

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

That's funny. Once people get to know me, I get "What are you climbing this weekend?" on Friday, and if I wear pants to work on Monday (to cover my bruises and scrapes) I get "So what did you climb this weekend."

It's funny how quickly people pick up on it...

mm · 11 months ago

saving
them: putting a portion of your money away, over your entire working life, so that you can stop working, move to Florida, and spend your remaining days basically idle.
us: eating beans, rice, and ramen for months while putting away a bunch of your money so you can spend it all next summer to travel to some exotic locale to sleep outside and crank on rock for days on end.

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

TRUE!

Will · 11 months ago

Great post! I'm always shocked at how much Them are willing to rely on everyone else for their safety and security. Us, on the other hand, know that, ultimately, we are responsible for our own safety

Tyson · 11 months ago

Good post! I will admit that sometimes I wish there were more of "them" out there though. Every time I'm waiting in line on a popular alpine climb or have to pass 10 people in the skintrack I think, "shouldn't you people be at the mall or something?" Conversely, every time I drive by the crowded mall/sports-stadium/whatever I think "glad y'all aren't crowding up my crag.

I also take offense to your boss' comment re: your arms. My girl can hike me into the ground on a big approach and she frequently climbs dozens of pitches in a day. Fit climber girls = sexy! Your boss = poor taste in women!

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

Yikes, don't knock Paul... he's a great guy (one of my favorite people, no less) and he's really just looking out for me in "normal society." I've had a lot of climber guys make similar comments -- everybody has different ideas of what attractive is, for sure.

I have similar thoughts re "them." Especially when I wind up at a crag on a weekend and just pine for the weekday climbs when there's nobody around.

Jennifer D. · 11 months ago

I don't climb, but remove the gear and the rocks and I'm right there with you. I could spin a yarn... Maybe I will, maybe I won't, maybe I ought to. For those interested in another realm of danger, try being a play-it-by-ear, lovingly neglectful parent in a hyperparenting world. Yikes. (My kid stays up till 11 and sleeps till 9:30! We don't have a nursery! She doesn't sleep in a crib! The horror!)

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

I'll bet you don't wash her clothes in bleach, or chase her around with disinfecting wipes, too. Oh, the horror, Jennifer!

I envy your kid. I'd love to get to sleep until 9:30.

:)

nanske · 11 months ago

This morning, in the shower, I was looking forward to your post, because you already announced it (but my morning is not your morning, so I had to go to work still curious). And it was worth waiting for, a good one! And sooo true. I'm (happily!) married to 'them', can you imagine? Though we only seem to differ on the items 'overnight' (both of them), 'eating' and 'hygiene', and, well, to be honest, on 'partner'. Phone call home on a climbing weekend: "Who's with you in your tent tonight? WHAT, one of the guys??"

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

HA! You defy my theory, Nanske -- I've been bickering with some of my climbing partners (boys) lately about how it's unfair that male climbers seem to do great with non-climbing romantic partners (many of mine have gone so far as to say they would *not* want to date a climbergirl)... but that it's a double standard for us climbergirls...

another reminder that I get in trouble when I make generalizations... but I suppose I do love being proven wrong! :)

nanske · 11 months ago

Ah, but I see your theory all around me! Boys just don't seem to like independent girls as their partner very much. AND: when it comes to raising a family, it's accepted for the father to be away on some nice weekends, but a mother that leaves her children must be a bad mother, doesn't she? It's not so easy for the guys to withstand such common thinking. Maybe a lot of them even think so themselves. I'm not sure how M. would react, would we have children. But we don't and don't have the intention to change that.

No, I do agree: climbergirls looking for a relationship best hook up with climberboys if they want their lifestyle contintued.

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

As much as I've been working on a blog post about exactly this... I think I'm going to just drop it! Climberboy or Normalboy (or, for that matter, Climbergirl or Normalgirl) I think we meet and work it out with the people we're supposed to meet and work it out with. It does me no good to get my ... you know what in a twist over that particular double standard being "unfair..." rather, I'll just carefully choose my partners (romantic, I mean). While I think it's more likely I'll find happiness and the right kind of partnership with a fellow outdoorsy type... I wouldn't/shouldn't rule anything out.

Jesus, this is turning into Cosmo... ;)

nanske · 11 months ago

I think you're quite right about meeting and working things out with the people we're supposed to meet and work things out with. Keep that thought going and you'll be happy either way, I think.

<cosmo off> and now for a light meal and packing stuff for climbing training tonight.

Jennifer, Eloise, and Charley · 11 months ago

I always love your posts Sara and this one is hilarious! I am 'them', but I don't think I'm 'normal' either. But who would want to be 'normal' that is boring. As I was running yesterday, and again this morning, with a pain in my foot that feels like I am stepping on a sharp knife and thinking "if running isn't making the *injury* (yes same foot problem that I have had for 5 years now?) worse then why stop because it hurts?" And then as I was remembering that my doctor (and her nurse) looked at me as though I was crazy for asking if I could resume running at 36 weeks pregnant after having been on bed rest for 7 weeks... And them remembering that perhaps all the advice from other mom's to 'start slow' when resuming your exercise routine did not mean making my first post-baby run a 3 miler (but 3 miles really isn't that far!). Anyhow, when I was thinking about these things that I know people think I am weird for doing/wanting to do etc, I decided that I was proud that I am a bit 'crazy' when it comes to exercise, specifically running. And I know that there are those (your 'us') who understand why I do the things I do. So I say embrace your eccentricities/craziness because it is something to be proud of and to protect :)
love
Jennifer and Eloise and Charley (who is a little out of running shape also having taken the same respite from it that I had to :) )

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

YAY! I didn't think about the ways that my closest friends are also something other than Them... ;) I can't believe you're still having foot problems, Jen! That is just unbelievable... and even more unbelievable that you run through it. You are hard core!

PS - I can't wait to see you guys soon! Snuggles to Charley for me, and a smooch to Matty and Eloise!

The Redhead · 11 months ago

I can't agree more with what you said about your hot, hot rock climbing GUNS! Nothing's hotter than a gal with guns, clippin' it or whippin' it----that is, aside from the guy who thinks that the gal with guns on the wall is hot :)

There are walks of life for everyone. Some of us just choose to do our walking a bit higher above sea level than others.

gallatntimber · 11 months ago

Only thing Hotter than a Climber Girl with Guns is a Climber Girl with Guns, a PHD, and a Old Subaru.( ok maybe skier chicks)

Dayna Downing · 11 months ago

Sara,I loved your post.

For years, I was in the "Them" category, and when I worked at REI, I started to begin spending time in what you call the "Us" category. My life has become richer because of it. I hate that I am at a place in my life where I cannot climb, but I know it won't last forever! (At the moment, I am straddling categories.)

Also, girls with ripped backs and climbing guns are HOT...totally. Add intellect to that, and you have a dangerous combo! You're right, you don't want a guy who doesn't appreciate that. : )

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

so happy to see you come up for air for a moment, Dayna! I hope that
you're taking care of yourself, and that all is well with you! I'll
climb extra hard on my next trip in honor of your sacrifice for the
future of our profession... :)

Dayna Downing · 11 months ago

Awww, thanks! That's so sweet. I will live vicariously through you!

(And I'm doing OK - thanks for the thoughts!)

alpinefolk · 11 months ago

Damn I need to get a bit more unconventional again. Damn this flat rockless region I live in. Think I might chuck in the job ;-)

At least you have focus... I tend to have to many outdoor sports and hobbies and never mastered any of them. (that is life balance = mediocre)

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

yeah, but focus has its downsides. I was on a trip once and a new climbing partner and I had been chatting for most of a day... finally, he turned to me and asked, "What do you do other than rock climb?"

I honestly, truly, couldn't think of a word to say.

Since then, of course, when not on the spot, I can come up with a long list of "other" things... but climbing is a dominant part. I just (a few minutes ago) got home from dinner with some new friends... when we all sat down at the table, one of the boys said, "I found your blog through another blog... I was really amazed at how... much it's about climbing."

Yup.

It is.

:) Thanks for the comment, just followed you on Twitter -- pleased to make your acquaintance!

WasatchGirl · 11 months ago

Yeah, I always note that I have a climbing / travel blog and then a venture capital blog. However, the VC blog has been dormant since I started on my road trip. =)

hmf · 11 months ago

This is such an amazing post - which I hope gets wide distribution. It reminds me of the song/video "No Man's Woman" by Sinead O'Connor - which I think is about trying to fit w/in societal expectations, but discovering that only by following your passion in your chosen environment can you feel truly free & happy.

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

Awww, that made me smile. Thank you. Funny for me that even with all the gender dynamics in that post... what I think about is the amazing, happy, full, blessed life I live having adventures with my friends and all of the stories behind the "Them's." I'm a pretty lucky girl to have this much fun...

WasatchGirl · 11 months ago

This is hilarious! I am reading this post after...
- noticing I was the only climber in Horseshoe Canyon Ranch last night
- waking up in the backseat of my Honda Civic, my "bed" for the past 6 months
- realizing I am on at least day 5 of not washing the hair, and a couple days of not combing it
- definitely still wearing the clothes I have worn for the past 3+ days
- and currently waiting for the snow to melt so I can go climb. =)
- after climbing, I will then make the 16 hour trek to Hueco Tanks.

Yay... I am one of "us"!

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

Oh, honey... You may be the definition of "us!" Have fun climbing today, and safe driving! Can't wait to hear about Hueco!

amyc · 11 months ago

fun post, sara.

i am a 'them' that has been slowly and steadily morphing into an 'us' over the past 8 years (hadn't run a mile in my life prior to 2000 and now training for a 50M; couldn't make it a mile up a hiking trail and now run up them; thought climbing was an absolutely crazy sport [just couldn't understand it] and now i'm totally hooked).

i appreciate the differences in human nature (am really fascinated by it) and am excited for an extended climbing trip later this year to explore outside my current bubble (there are more of 'us' than 'them' where i live) and solidify my own strength as more 'us' than 'them' while experiencing the confusion, disapproval and non-understanding comments and judgements of 'them.'

i think we all experience different aspects of 'us' and 'them' in all we do if we are independent and strong-of-character at all. i am happy and so much more comfortable with myself as an 'us.' :)

SteveontheRocks · 11 months ago

Why do so many people need to create the strawmen THEM to make themselves (US) feel better. Sorry. I like you're blog, but this divisive, overly simplistic stuff is silly. Live your life and worry not about THEM. Besides, do you realize how many people I (and you, I'm sure) run into in the great outdoors who are also THEM when it comes to making a living. And do realize how many are only able to live the US lifestyle because some THEM (mom and dad, etc.) are subsidising them? People aren't as easy to pigeon hole as this post pretends.

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

I appreciate the criticism... My counterpoint is that I envy many aspects of the "them" portrayed in my post... As much as I love my life, there are sure some things that would be simpler if my priorities were a bit more conventional. Not to mention, I am "them" when it comes to making a living... I am a two-job professional, and own my own company. This post isn't meant to pigeonhole... We are all on a spectrum. If anything, it's meant to poke some lighthearted fun, equal opportunity style. I hope you'll keep reading despite your distaste for this post, and thanks for the comment.

Ian · 11 months ago

Thats great!

alpinerack · 11 months ago

I love this post Sara! I am still laughing! This reminds me of a quote that I have lived by my whole life and I think sums this article up pretty well.
"My vacation is your worst nightmare"
Not sure who said it or where I heard it but it has always stuck with me.
What would you choose? A 110 degree beach or a ice choked couloir spitting spin drift down your coat?

Jenn Fields · 11 months ago

While home for Christmas, my in-laws congratulated us on our nontraditional lifestyle. The think it's quite brave that neither of us works for the man, brave that we haven't taken secure jobs, which allows us to travel and climb.

I countered: I don't think it's brave. Working a corporate gig isn't safe anymore--they're cutting benefits everywhere, and look at the layoffs! It's an illusion of safety, just as much as our unconventional lives carry the illusion of unsafe planning by the seats of our pants. Working for yourself is the safest way to make sure you work and have the life you want--and that is what is truly unconventional about your life, Sara!

Samson · 11 months ago

Sweet! Love the post. And I realize I'm a hybrid. Does that make me a "Thus"? Or maybe an "Uhem"? Something like that.

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

I think we're all a bit thus or uhem... ;)

Karen · 11 months ago

I am a girl who is fairly new to rock climbing, so I approached your blog with interest. However, I take offense to your sweeping generalizations. You claim to seek balance but by positioning yourself as “us” against “them,” you only create division. I applaud you for living unconventionally, but by labeling everyone who does not live the life you do as shallow, consumeristic, and materialistic, you only make it harder for others to understand your own choices. I climb primarily indoors as I am building strength and learning how to properly and safely use gear, but just because I don’t make a habit of sleeping in the rain doesn’t mean I use my car just for driving to work and the mall. There are many ways to live outside perceived societal norms, and we all have things to learn from people who are different than we are. It frustrates me when I encounter an attitude of elitism within the climbing community. Wasn’t everyone a newbie at some point? Wouldn’t the act of welcoming others into the climbing community only strengthen the efforts of all of us who are interested in conserving our wilderness and our climbing areas? Wouldn’t we be better served by sharing the merits of our lifestyle choices rather than deriding anyone who isn’t like us?

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

Karen - welcome to the world of rock climbing, and I hope you'll keep reading. About twice a year, I post something that some people like, some people strongly dislike, which I think is funny. This is an example of one of those posts... so please stick around and hopefully I can make it up to you in time.

I don't believe (and I don't believe that I labeled) folks who live a more conventional life as "shallow, consumeristic, and materialistic." If the post is read that way, it's only as a caricature (this post is meant to be funny -- I've been criticized before for being utterly unfunny, so if I've not succeeded at being funny, again... my bad).

Everyone was a newbie at some point. I've been "in it" for four years, and I still consider myself a beginner. I'm known as the "welcoming committee" in my local gym, where I try to welcome new climbers and encourage them in their learning process. I also work, actively, to create interest in climbing and to promote climbing as the wonderful activity it is.

As much as all of that, though, I also would like the room to express my viewpoint from time to time. I'm starting to get a bit ... can't think of the word ... so will have to go with a descriptive phrase ... I'm starting to feel a bit like a puppy that gets smacked with a newspaper ... whenever I post something other than a gear review or trip report ... something about "my climbing life" I just brace myself for the criticism of my elitism, the generalizations I make, the stereotypes I fit (or don't fit).

I wouldn't wish my "dedication" on anyone. I say, over and over, that I envy people who can be recreational rock climbers, and maintain a "normal" life. It is my mission to welcome others into the climbing community at a very personal level (one to one) as well as through this blog. But... the tradeoff for that is that once in awhile, I'm going to write something, from my frame of reference, that I think is funny, and that I think might resonate with you folks who read this.

As much as a post like this may not resonate with newer climbers, or folks who live their climbing life differently than some of my friends and I... my training tips and how-to's don't resonate with more experienced climbers. Hopefully there's something here for everybody, and please just forgive me an occasional post you don't like, and keep reading. In return, I'll appreciate the differing viewpoints here, and will try not to censor myself too much in response to the criticism I do get. 'cause that's when it stops being fun, for all of us!

dave · 11 months ago

heh, fun stuff. I've more or less given up discussing climbing with people who don't climb. They just don't get it, which is ok. You mention climbing at a party or to a relative and you get something like 'oh climbing? My neice did that at the gym for her birthday 3 years ago and loved it!'

V_0 · 11 months ago

Great post! My favourite quote is: "People who negative scan need to find a hobby." I hope you don't mind if I use it.
By the way, is that a shot (#6) from the Apron on the Chief? Looks like somewhere on Banana Peel.
Climber Girl, don't let the offended folk keep you from posting more of your fine humour.

theclimbergirl · 11 months ago

good eye! That's a shot from the top of Diedre, which I think is near Banana Peel? I don't have a Squamish guide, but that's my recollection.

Glad you liked the post, and thanks for the comment!

ripsawridge · 11 months ago

Loved it. Just want to say, keep posting the stuff that gets reactions (including negative). Personally I thought it was funny. People are so serious! Like the comment about some of THEM having to work to support US. Jeesh. My sympathies...keep up the funny stuff!

patrick nobles · 11 months ago

very nice work. I lived out of my car for 10 months in 2008, loving every minute of it...(well, there are a few minutes i tend to block out) . Your blog entry was very well put, thanks for the entertainment, keep it up.

Melissa · 11 months ago

Love it. I am a long distance hiker, not as much a climber, but I have definitely have felt awkward coming back into "society" on several occasions. Someone even tried to offer me $20 after giving me a hitch into town. If they knew my pack and all its contents were worth more than their car, they might have driven right by me.

I have another one from hiking:

Stinky;
Them: Us. Body odor, unclean hair, sunblock, dirt.

Us: Them. Perfume & soap.

bryan · 11 months ago

You Fu!King Rock!!! This post made my month and the jury is still out... sad, i know. I love the outdoors and am trying to come up with a plan to live permanently out of the office. The movie Office Space is me to a T. I hate that about myself but Im making my exit from all the posers that think they have the 'good life'. Way to go!

happily happy · 10 months ago

Some of the most self-indulgent climber-prose dreck that I have ever had the misfortune of coming across.

Climbing rocks doesn't make you interesting, or competent, or virtuous. Many of the least happy people I've ever met have justified their existence via lists such as the above.

Read Mark Jenkins, read Mark Twight, read Greg Mortensen, read the writing of many excessive personalities and extraordinary athletes - most of them come to the same conclusion.

theclimbergirl · 10 months ago

Your first line could be the subhead for my blog, but I wouldn't want
to use someone else's words without attribution, anonymous commenter.

Thanks for the reading list tips, and for your comment.

NoPoGirl · 7 months ago

This is a nice post. I am the mom of an 8-month-old who has a husband and a full-time job. I skied 30+ days this year, have been climbing 4 weekends thus far this spring and am an avid bike racer and triathlete. When I get to work on Monday, my co-workers don't even ask about my weekend any more. You think you might be alone as a climber in the "real world"? Try being a climbing, telemark skiing, bike racing mom. I have yet to meet any moms who are as active as me. This doesn't mean I don't look- I look EVERYWHERE. Luckily, my husband and I are climbing, skiing and cycling partners, so we're pretty understanding of each other.

So...I have a mortgage, a job, a car payment, insurance, a 401K, a BABY and I still consider myself a dirt-bag. Some dreams never die. ;)

i like the woods · 7 months ago

Not to be a dick, (I love to climb and get... ***dirty*** too) but you seem like an elitist bitch who spends more time at the computer analyzing what you just climbed or hiked than actually enjoying it for the true joy climbing gives you.

theclimbergirl · 7 months ago

Huh. Not the first time I've been called a "bitch," though "elitist bitch" may be a new one. Doesn't happen often... I try to be pretty nice to people, and they're usually pretty nice back.

To your point, though, nope. I actually enjoy my time outside purely for the true joy climbing gives me. I just also like to write, and my climbing life is one of the things I like to write about. I learn stuff, and I meet some really great people by opening myself up like this. It's your prerogative to read, or not to, and to be nice, or not to.

Thanks for your concern, and for taking the time to comment, anonymously.

Darren · 7 months ago

"Not to be a dick..."

Oops. Too late.

"...you seem like..."

You're obviously uninformed (and spectacularly unenlightened). If you're going to be critical, put your name on things, dude. Go back to sleep.